>>> NEARLY $1 BILLION, THAT'S THE SUM EXTRACTED OUT OF THE U.S.

LAST YEAR FROM ONLINE CAT FISH SCAMS, PRAYING ON LONELY AMERICANS, USING FAKE DATING SITE PROFILES AND PROMISING RELATIONSHIPS.

YOUNG MEN BASED IN NIGERIA ARE PERSUADING INDIVIDUALS TO SEND THEM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

JOURNALISTS AND AUTHOR CARLOS' NEW BOOK LOOKS AT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE SCAMS, WHICH HIT CLOSE TO HOME AFTER HIS MOTHER BECAME A VICTIM.

HE JOINS TO DISCUSS WHAT THIS ISSUE REVEALS ABOUT CULTURAL FAILURES IT IN BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND NIGERIA.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR RECENT BOOK IS CALLED THE YAHOO BOYS, LOVE, DECEPTION, AND THE REAL LIVES OF NIGERIA'S ROMANCE SCAMMERS.

THIS STORY?

WHAT WAS A TRIGGER?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME HERE.

LONG TIME AGO AROUND TEN YEARS AGO, MY MOM MET A WONDERFUL AMERICAN MAN ON A DATING APP.

YOU KNOW, SHE'S A SINGLE MOM.

SHE WAS TAKING CARE OF ME AND MY TWO BROTHERS.

SHE WAS SO EXCITED AFTER MEETING THESE MEN CALLED BRIAN.

WE THOUGHT, OKAY, WHY NOT?

BUT THEN THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS VERY WEIRD FROM THE BEGINNING.

THEY WERE EXCHANGING E-MAILS.

THE GUY SAID HE WAS BASED IN SYRIA, AN AMERICAN SOLDIER.

AND AFTER A MONTH, THE GUY SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO SHIP SOME GOLD BARS TO OUR APARTMENT.

OF COURSE, MY MOM DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE GOLD BARS, BUT THEY WOULD START A NEW LIFE TOGETHER.

I KNEW IT WAS A SCAM.

SO I TRACED THE E-MAIL ADDRESS, AND THE GUY, BRIAN, WAS NOT IN SYRIA, BUT ACTUALLY HE WAS IN NIGERIA.

SO AFTER A FEW YEARS OF ME WATCHING MY MOM STRUGGLING WITH LONELINESS, I WAS VERY CURIOUS, I WANTED TO KNOW WHO WAS THE GUY BEHIND THE SCAM?

SO I WENT TO NIGERIA.

>> AS ANY GOOD REPORTER WOULD, RIGHT?

AND YOU QUIT YOUR JOB.

YOU TRAVELED TO THIS PLACE.

I MEAN, WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST IMPRESSION?

WERE YOU LOOKING FOR SOMETHING?

WERE YOU LOOKING FOR KIND OF A BIG ORGANIZED CRIME RING, YOU KNOW, HUGE MACHINES THAT WERE POWERING ALL OF THIS?

AND WHAT DID YOU ACTUALLY FIND?

>> SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW NIGERIA HAVE THESE SCAMMERS, BUT THERE ARE SCAMMERS EVERYWHERE.

AND IN MY EXCHANGE, THE KIND OF SCAMS THEY DO THAT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE LOVE SCAMS IN SOUTHEAST ASIA, AND THESE PEOPLE ARE WELL-ORGANIZED.

I EXPECTED SOMETHING LIKE THAT, VERY WELL ORGANIZED, VERY DANGEROUS, VERY RECKLESS.

BUT WHAT I FOUND ACTUALLY WAS A BUNCH OF KIDS, MAYBE TEENAGERS, WHO WERE JUST FREELANCERS WITH THEIR PHONE, SCAMMING LONELY WESTERNERS.

THEY WERE LEARNING HOW TO DO THAT BY TALKING TO THEIR OLDER BROTHERS, OLDER FRIENDS, WHERE THEY COULD GET INFORMATION ON HOW TO TALK TO LONELY PEOPLE.

SO THERE WAS NOTHING, IT WAS JUST A BUNCH OF KIDS WITH PHONES.

>> WOW.

SO WHAT WAS THE ENVIRONMENT LIKE?

WHERE WERE THEY DOING THIS?

WHAT WAS THEIR KIND OF DAY-TO- DAY LIFE LIKE?

>> SO I FOCUSED THE BOOK, A MASSIVE CITY.

AND MOST OF THE BOYS I TALKED TO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A COMMUNITY WHERE MOST OF THE PEOPLE THERE OR SOME OF THE PEOPLE THERE STRUGGLED TO EAT SOMETIMES, ESPECIALLY IN AN EPIDEMIC WHERE INFLATION HIT HARD.

AND THESE BOYS SPENT MOST OF THE NIGHTS, "WORKING" AS THEY WOULD CALL IT BECAUSE THEY ARE TALKING TO AMERICANS ONLINE.

BECAUSE OF THE TIME ZONE, THEY HAVE TO SPEND THEIR NIGHTS AWAKE, TALKING TO MEN AND WOMEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE OCEAN.

SO THEY SPEND THEIR MORNINGS SLEEPING, AND THEN SOMETIMES THEY SMOKE DRUGS TO KEEP AWAKE.

OBVIOUSLY THEY ALSO SPENT THE MONEY THEY SCAMMED, THEY GET FROM THESE VICTIMS.

>> WHEN YOU SAY THEY SPENT THE MONEY THEY SCAMMED, HOW MUCH MONEY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

I MEAN, YOU COULD TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUAL CASES, THEN KIND OF EXTRACT HOW BIG OF A PROBLEM THIS IS?

>> SO FOR EXAMPLE IN ONE OF THE CHARACTERS I FOLLOWED, HE'S A 14-YEAR-OLD BOY WHO CAME FROM THE VILLAGE.

HIS MOM SELLS FRUIT ON THE STREET MAKING $2 A DAY.

OF COURSE, THE LITTLE BOY DOESN'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT THE SO-CALLED WESTERN WORLD THAT HE LEARNS FROM OLDER PEOPLE HOW TO TALK TO, FOR EXAMPLE, A TRUCK DRIVER IN CALIFORNIA.

HE STRUGGLES A LOT GETTING MONEY FROM THESE VICTIMS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO TALK TO THEM.

BUT THE FIRST $5 HE GETS, HE COMMISSION FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE, AND HE BUYS RICE AND CHICKEN, WHICH IS TEN TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN WHAT HIS MOM HAD GIVEN HIM THAT MORNING.

NOW, THAT IS ONE CASE THAT SHOWS HOW POOR SOME OF THESE YOUNG BOYS ARE.

IN OTHER CASES WHEN THEY GET MORE MONEY BECAUSE THEY'RE VICTIMS WHO MIGHT SEND HUNDREDS, IF NOT, THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

THEY GO TO CLUBS, THEY GO TO HOTELS, AND THEY SPLURGE THE MONEY TO TELL THE COMMUNITY I MADE IT.

SO IN A WAY, IT IS ALSO VERY CONNECTED TO HIS STATUS.

>> SO TELL ME ABOUT HOW SOCIETY DEALS WITH THIS, RIGHT?

IT MUST NOT BE A SECRET ON HOW THIS 14-YEAR-OLD OR 18-YEAR-OLD ARE MAKING SO MUCH MONEY THAT THEY COULD BUY HUGE BOTTLE SERVICE IN A CLUB.

WHAT DO THE PARENTS THINK?

WHAT DO SOCIETY THINK?

BECAUSE THERE IS ALSO AN ECONOMIC RIPPLE EFFECT OF THOSE DOLLARS?

>> THEY AGREE TO THE TENSION.

WORD YAHOO TO A NIGERIAN.

I FEEL 50% OF THE PEOPLE ARE COMPLETELY AGAINST IT AND THE OTHER 50 HAVE THEIR RESERVATIONS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY MIGHT MENTION COLONIALISM OR SLAVERY.

SOME OF THE CAUSES IN A WAY THAT CREATED THE CURRENT NIGERIA CITIES.

AT THE SAME TIME, THESE MONEY, AS YOU SAID, HAVE RIPPLE EFFECTS.

BECAUSE THESE SCAMMERS, 18, 20, 25, THEY GET THEIR MONEY.

AROUND THEM, THE WHOLE COMMUNITY IS TRYING TO GET THEIR SHARE OF THE PIE AS WELL.

AND YOU HAVE BOUTIQUE STORES, HOTEL OWNERS, EVEN POLICE OFFICERS, ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO GET THAT MONEY FROM THAT BOY WHO JUST WANTS TO SHARE IT OR AT LEAST WANTS TO BRAG ABOUT HIS ILLICIT GAINS.

AND I THINK IT CREATES THE SORT OF TENSION WHERE THE COMMUNITY IN THE SHORT TERM IS RECEIVING MONEY, THAT IN A WAY MIGHT END UP IN BEING PAID FOR SCHOOL FEES OR FEES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

BUT IN THE LONG TERM, IT IS DETRIMENTAL FOR THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THESE YOUNG PEOPLE END UP WITHOUT LEARNING ANY TRADE.

>> WHAT ARE THE CUSTOMERS OVERSEAS FROM THE UNITED STATES, ENGLAND, WHATEVER.

WHAT DO THEY NEED?

WHY ARE THEY WILLING TO ENGAGE IN THESE FALSE RELATIONSHIPS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> SO WHENEVER I TALK TO THE YAHOO BOYS, A 30-YEAR-OLD MAN.

HE WOULD MENTION ALL THE TIME THE SAME WORD.

ATTENTION.

YOU HAVE TO GIVE THE CLIENTS BECAUSE THEY CALL THEIR VICTIMS CLIENTS.

YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM ATTENTION.

AND AFTER A LOT OF HOURS TALKING TO THESE SCAMMERS, YOU KNOW, I TALKED TO MORE THAN 50 OF THEM.

YOU REALIZE THAT THESE ARE NOT VERY SOPHISTICATED SCAMMERS OR MASTERMINDS.

ACTUALLY, THEY ARE JUST THERE ALL THE TIME.

THEY KNOW THAT SOMETIMES SAYING HOW IS YOUR DAY?

BREAKFAST?

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TODAY IS MORE POWERFUL THAN SENDING THESE VERY BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE.

IT MADE ME THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT IS THE KEY POINT OF THE BOOK.

HOW LONELY SOME PEOPLE ARE IN THE WESTERN WORLD THAT THESE 14-YEAR-OLD BOY WHO HAS NEVER LEFT IN HIS LIFE, IS ABLEIST GET SOME MONEY FOR THE VICTIM.

AND I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT THE BLAME ON THE INDIVIDUAL, THE VICTIM.

BUT SOCIETY AROUND THE VICTIM.

>> YOU'RE KIND OF POINTING OUT THERE'S A MASSIVE DEMAND INFRASTRUCTURE OF PEOPLE THAT ARE LONELY.

I WONDER IF SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE KNOW THIS IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE?

BUT THEY STILL LIKE THE CONNECTION WITH ANOTHER PERSON.

I MEAN, YOUR MOM WAS RECEPTIVE TO THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A SCAMMER.

HERE IS THE PROOF.

BUT SOMETIMES WHEN YOU POINT THAT OUT TO PEOPLE, THEY SEEM TO ACTIVELY IGNORE IT?

>> I HAVE THE SCAMMERS TELLING ME, I WAS SCAMMING THE VICTIM, AND THE POLICE WENT TO HER OR HIS HOUSE.

AND THE POLICE TOLD THEM, YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED, AND THE VICTIM TOLD THE SCAMMER AND THE POLICE CAME, BUT I BELIEVE YOU.

ALL THE SCAMMERS TOLD ME THEY KNOW THEIR VICTIMS.

THEY KNOW THEY'RE BEING SCAMMED, BUT THEY STILL TALK TO THEM.

OF COURSE, THE REALITY IS ALWAYS VERY COMPLEX.

FOR EXAMPLE, SHE SHARED WITH US, WITH MY BROTHERS AND ME.

SOME OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE SCAM BECAUSE I THINK SHE WAS DIVIDED.

AND DEFINITELY NOT ALL THE HUMAN CONNECTION AND ATTENTION.

I DO THINK THAT IS SOME OF THESE VICTIMS, THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

I ALSO TALKED TO VICTIMS, AND ONE OF THEM TOLD ME AND IS STILL TALKING TO MY BOY, EVEN THOUGH SHE KNEW THIS WAS A NIGERIAN SCAMMER.

HE PUT ME UNDER THE SPELL.

THEY MENTIONED THE WORD, SPELL.

I THINK CERTAINLY, THERE IS A BIT OF THAT.

>> YOU KNOW, IT IS INTERESTING THE CHILD, AT THE AGE OF 14, IS ABLE TO TAP IN TO WHAT IN AMERICA WE CONSIDER THE LONELINESS ACADEMIC.

THERE'S 52 MILLION ADULTS, YOU EXPERIENCE LONELINESS AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK.

HOW ARE WE NOT ABLE TO SEE EACH OTHER ON THE STREET?

AND HOW IS YOUR DAY?

YOU KNOW, CHECK IN WITH EACH OTHER, THE SOCIETY WE'RE IN.

HERE WE ARE USING THE INTERNET TO FIND THIS CONNECTION SOMEWHERE ELSE?

>> I HAD ONE NIGERIAN MAN WHO TELL ME YOU, AMERICANS, EVEN THOUGH I'M A SPANIARD.

HE SAID YOU WESTERNS HAVE ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD THAT HAVE NO SHOULDER TO CRY ON.

HERE IT IN NIGERIA, WE HAVE EVERYONE AROUND US, BUT WE HAVE NO MONEY.

AND I THINK IT IS THE CENTRAL PART OF THE BOOK.

IT IS QUITE SAD THESE PEOPLE EACH OTHER HAVE TO LIE TO THE OTHER PERSON TO GIVE THAT.

AND I THINK THAT WE ARE NOT REALLY AWARE OF HOW LONELY SOME OF THE PEOPLE AROUND US ARE THEY WERE IN RELATIONSHIPS.

IT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT ISOLATION.

I THINK IT IS CONNECTED TO THE GOLDEN AGE THEY BUILT TO MAKE AN ENORMOUS PROFIT AND TO KEEP US ENGAGED.

>> TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE COSTS AND THE DANGERS, HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE SPENDING ON THIS, AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR LIVES?

>> IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT NUMBERS TO THIS.

FOR EXAMPLE, AUTHORITIES SAY THESE KIND OF SCAMS ARE REPORTED ONLY BY 5% OF THE VICTIMS BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF SHAME INVOLVED.

SO THE CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR FAMILY OR THE WORLD THAT THEY WERE BEING SCAMMED.

WHAT A FOOL YOU ARE.

AND THE OTHER VICTIM SAID THIS IS THE SADDEST CRIME IN THE WORLD.

NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE MONEY YOU LOSE.

ACTUALLY PROBABLY THAT IS NOT THE BIGGEST CONCERN.

BECAUSE YOU BUILT AN UNDERSTANDING.

YOU THOUGHT THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE WAS A REAL PERSON.

IT IS VERY HARD FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NOT EXPERIENCING THAT WITH THE PERSON.

YES, YOU CAN IMAGINE THE PERSON YOU HAVE BEEN IN LOVE WITH FOR THE LAST TWO, THREE, TEN YEARS IS NOT THE PERSON HE OR SHE SAID THEY ARE.

THAT PUT YOU IN A VERY DIFFICULT POSITION, PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND MENTALLY.

>> ON THE SUPPLY SIDE, WE'VE SEEM TO HAVE THE LONELINESS EPIDEMIC THAT MIGHT LEAVE PEOPLE.

ON THE DEMAND SIDE OVER ON THE NIGERIAN FRONT.

YOU HAVE INCREDIBLE INEQUALITY AND POVERTY.

AND IT FEELS LIKE YOU WOULD DO ANYTHING TO PUT FOOD ON YOUR TABLE.

WHEN YOU SEE WHAT YOUR MOTHER MIGHT DO FOR A LIVING AND HOW LITTLE MONEY YOU GET AND HOW LITTLE BREAD SORT TO SPEAK YOU GET.

THIS ALTERNATIVE SEEMS LIKE, THIS IS ALMOST A VICTIMLESS CRIME.

I'M NOT ACTUALLY MURDERING ANYMORE.

I'M NOT ENGAGING IN GANG VIOLENCE.

I JUST HAVE TO SPEND SOME TIME ON MY PHONE.

>> THIS IS A PROBLEM OF GLOBALIZATION AND EXTREME INEQUALITY.

WHEN IN THE PAST, YOU WERE LIVING IN THE CITY THAT A LOT OF INEQUALITY.

IN THE LONG RUN, EITHER IT WAS GOING TO LEAD TO SOCIAL STABILITY OR TO CONTROL THAT.

WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE INTERNET IS SUDDENLY THESE PEOPLE IN NIGERIA, THEY COULD ALSO HAPPEN IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

THEY WOULD HAVE A WINDOW INTO OUR REACHES.

MAYBE THEY ARE NOT BURNING BRIDGES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET TO AMERICA.

BUT THEY ARE TALKING TO LONELY PEOPLE AND THEY ARE SCAMMING THEM.

AND CERTAINLY THEY ALSO -- THE AFTERSHOCKS OF COLONIALISM AND SLAVERY AND THE EMPIRE CREATING A COUNTRY OUT OF NETWORK.

SO IN THE BOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE THESE CHARACTERS WHO IS THE BIGGEST GRANDFATHER WHO WOULD HAVE TO DRESS UP AS A WOMAN, DURING THE CIVIL WAR, THAT IN A WAY WAS ALSO IMPACTED BY WEST AFRICA.

SO IT IS A PART OF THE BIGGEST GRANDFATHER, TO DRESS UP AS A WOMAN TO THE CIVIL WAR.

AND 60 YEARS LATER, HIS GRANDSON IS ALSO DRESSING UP AS A WOMAN, ALL NIGHT.

>> FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THAT IS THE STUFF THAT CAME AROUND IN THE 19 THE 0s.

IN YOUR BOOK, YOU'LL GO BACK INTO THE HISTORY OF SCAMMING NIGERIA, AND YOU GO WAY FURTHER.

WHAT IS THAT?

>> WELL, FOR ME, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO TRACE BACK THE SCAMS IN WEST AFRICA.

HIGHLIGHTING THE POINT THAT THERE IS NOTHING NIGERIAN ABOUT THESE SCAMS.

BUT THE HISTORICAL CONDITIONS THAT LED TO THE SCAMS ARE IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE WEST AFRICANS SO TERRIFIED BY THE MAN IN THE EARLY 20th CENTURY WHEN THEY GOT THERE AND THEY FOOLED SOME OF THE LOCALS WITH FAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO GET THEIR LAND.

SOME OF THE LOCALS WOULD DRESS UP AS THE WHITE MAN WITH THEIR CLOTHES, PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE BEING SENT BY THE BRITISH EMPIRE.

THEY WOULD STEAL GRAINS AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS TO THE COMMUNITY, NOT TO THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES, BUT THE OTHER COMMUNITIES.

TIME THEY DID THIS KIND OF ROUSE, IT WAS THE RESULT OF COLONIALISM.

YOU KNOW?

WE SHOULDN'T FORGET THAT COLONIALISM HAS ALSO THIS KIND OF WEIRD AFTERSHOCKS.

AND IN A WAY THIS IS ALSO THE RESULT OF WHAT WE DID 100 YEARS AGO, 200 YEARS AGO.

I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS JUST ONE DIMENSIONAL COST.

TRYING TO UNDERSTAND ALL THE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS THAT WILL DRIVE THEM TO DO SUCH A HORRIFIC ACT.

I THINK WE SHOULD DESERVE THE SAME KIND OF SYMPATHY TO PEOPLE.

>> IN 2025 THERE WERE MORE THAN 23,000 COMPLAINTS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF CONFIDENCE AND ROMANCE CRIMES THAT WERE FILED IN THE U.S.

THESE CRIMES COST, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LOST ALMOST A BILLION DOLLARS.

WHY DO YOU THINK THESE CRIMES HAVE BECOME SO PREVALENT?

>> IT IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION THAT I DO THINK THE MAIN REASON IS THAT, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE WHOLE ANSWERS.

FOR ME, IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY MY MOM HAD FALLEN FOR THIS.

SO MAYBE THESE YOUNG BOYS WHO ARE GETTING THE MONEY CAN EXPLAIN TO ME WHY SUDDENLY THOUSANDS, NOT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF WESTERNERS ARE SENDING THE MONEY TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER MET IN THEIR REAL LIVES.

AND THEY THINK BACK TO THE IDEA OF ATTENTION.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD THROW THEM THE WORD LONELINESS THAT THEY COULD THROW ME BACK THE WORD OF ATTENTION.

BUT ALL OF US, WE ARE SPENDING SO MUCH TIME ON OUR DEVICES AND OUR PHONES.

THE SAME WAY THE YAHOO BOYS ARE COMPETING FOR THE VICTIMS' ATTENTION.

I DO THINK WHEN I LOOK AT MY MOM, I LOOK AT THE PEOPLE I LOVE.

SOMETIMES I FEEL I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME FOR THEM.

I WONDER WHERE IS THAT TIME GOING?

SO SPECIFICALLY AFTER THE PANDEMIC, A LOT OF PEOPLE I THINK THEY DO FEEL COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED FROM SOCIETY.

AND THEY ARE JUST, BY TALKING TO THESE PEOPLE, THEY ARE TRYING TO FILL A VOID THAT WE'VE, WE'VE DECIDED THAT WE WERE NOT GOING TO FEEL AS PARTNERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, OR CHILDREN.

>> CARLOS, THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK CALLED THE YAHOO BOYS.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IT WAS A PLEASURE.